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hello! glad I found this tribe. It seems kind of dead in here. I come from a 'born-again' stream.. thats how I was orignally iniitiated, well I guess it starts before there in episcipalian church .. then I went to the Catholic church, deepened in that doctrine, to find born-again churches, and then deepened in that search .. to .. uh.. be here. just groovin in the journey.
For whatever reason, and maybe its all ego, I have this urge to add to break through to the hard-edge fundamentalists that get really caught up in the literal world of the NKJV Bible. I suppose its all a very personal discovery, I dont know, any words on this?
For whatever reason, and maybe its all ego, I have this urge to add to break through to the hard-edge fundamentalists that get really caught up in the literal world of the NKJV Bible. I suppose its all a very personal discovery, I dont know, any words on this?
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 2:34 PMI'm actually kind of surprised that fundamentalists haven't embraced the Gnostic gospels - I mean it's new info about Jesus - you would think that they would be into the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea scrolls.
And anyone who does actually research the origins of the King James bible can see that it was badly edited on all fronts and is not the infallible word of God but a mish mash of politics and ego posturing by early church fathers.
I'm just annoyed with fundamentalists - you can't argue theology with them in any effective way. If you find a way to get through to them let me know. -
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 2:42 PMI like your icon,
yes, you would think that the fundamental ethich which generates their ideology(as it did for me) itself is a beautiful portal out of the bible.. that the spiritual truth is the individual relation with self and God. That the need of facilitation by exterior influence is BS, yet the cling so tightly to the 'word' ... the denounce the catholic church .. which ironically becomes the cheif censor to construct their belief system.. it IS frustrating.. because many of them are so passionately pursuing God.. I cant say that they are not with him, it just seems like sucha restricted reality.
I guess grace pulls us to where we are capable of standing. -
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 8:28 PMI ended up here through Christian Fundamentalism myself and it has been a long and strange journey. I actually ended up getting kicked out of my church because I wanted to marry a Catholic, which hurt my head a lot. So I started studying religious history and history in general for some understanding of why all these groups, that all use the Bible do not agree with each other. I have learned that this is true in just about all the major religions because people want to be literal. They have lost the feeling of personal gnosis and just want to follow the rules as set forth by whatever leader of their sect there is. I have even discovered this among gnostic and magical groups. I do not know how to reach them, I try to encourage people to think outside the box and challange what the believe and why. They have to want to deepen their understanding though, otherwise it just doesn't seem to work.
Good luck and I hope to have some more cool discussions here,
Dian -
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 8:38 PM>>personal gnosis<<
I have a sense that you could offer a really awesome free-write/elaboration on this term/phrase.. I kind of have an idea what it alludes to, but Id love to hear you sink deeper to it.. I think it will help me,.
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 9:22 PM>this is true in just about all the major religions because people want to be literal.
I disagree. People want to feel like the unseen is accessible - that they can be close to God. This is the basis of Martin Luther's revolution, the Protestant reform and the fundamentalist "pesonal relationship".
It's the powers of the church that want the teachings to be literal so they can control their parishoners. Too much personal relationship and there is no need for the church and the tithing it relies on. There's no way to control the political power of the masses that are believers except to control what they believe.
I think it was Mark of Alexandria who said that the Bible needed to be edited because the people didn't need to know, knowledge wasn't good for them. -
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 10:08 PMI agree with you dangerousness,
I think the basis that allows such 'literallness' to be passed into the 'masses' is a constant disempowering of individuals' worth and capability.. when one is constantly reminded of their lack .. they loose the faith in their own power, in their own right to a sincere and unobstructed, unrestricted relationship with themselves, and with God.
So we have people so fearful of their failures, so destructed with lack of self-respect, where humilty transforms to self-loathing.. and the only truth they can cling to is the LITERAL word for word offerings of the book exterior sources proclaim as truth.. the truth within themselves, must be wrong.. must be coated in sin, and selfishness...
Ironicly, especially infundamentalism, the strength of Christs teachings is said to complete and correct all that that would hold us back from complete and uncompromised union with devine.. and yet, many stay hunched, fearful, plagued by the evils they think they do.
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Mon, February 20, 2006 - 8:30 PMGood point Dangerousness and what I meant really. I also like how Zigo elaborated on why the people feel the need to let the Church "fathers" tell them what is right. Sadly so many people feel that they have to listen to what the preachers tell them to believe that they have lost the feeling of that personal relationship with the Almighty. When I was into Christianity, sure, I listened to the preacher, but I never really let them control me the way they controlled the others around me, hence my expulsion from the church.
Personal Gnosis, boy that is a big subject and one that maybe deserves it's own thread. Maybe we can even get a few others here to comment, that would be nice. Let me think on it and then write tomorrow, since I do not have lot's of time tonight.
Fiat Lux,
Dian -
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Sat, February 25, 2006 - 5:14 PMYou can't get through to them, just set a personal example of an enlightened life, and hope that at least one or two of them may follow an example, proselytization through force didn't work in the crusades, and it won't work now. just enjoy your personal journey, -
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Re: reaching fundamentalists
Mon, May 22, 2006 - 4:57 PMYes, I agree with that.
Sometimes it also helps to re-direct them to certain NT scriptures that help orient towards spiritual fruit, i.e., 1 Cor 13 on love not being arrogant or rude or about enjoying counting other's suffering, or Galatians 5 on Spiritual Fruit being about peacemaking and humility and love.
A challenge to really seek spiritual fruit and to really understand 1 Cor 13 and Galatians (especially Gal 5:22-23), is something I often rely upon. To be sincere and firm on the value of such a scripture, and to challenge them to do likewise, can be powerful I think.
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