Desperately need some objective advice....

topic posted Sun, March 12, 2006 - 6:30 PM by  Unsubscribed
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
I am coming to my fellow Gnostics for this one. Forgive me for the length of this question!

I'm 22 from North Carolina (the bible belt) and my highly spiritual nature led me into becoming heavily involved in my Baptist Church from a young age. I always felt like something was missing, or more like things were "simpler" when it came to religion/spirituality. Being of strong opinons, a rebellious nature, and sharp tongue I just thought that I was being unreasonable in disagreeing with certain aspects of religion. When I heard certain things preached, it just didn't feel right to me. When I went off to college, I slowly got more comfortable outside of the Baptist Church, and developed a more personal gnosis with God. When I moved to West Hollywood, I discovered Gnosticism through a Sylvia Browne book I was reading. Well circumstances brought me back to North Carolina, temporarily, to stay with my mother. Although the church has changed a lot, we still have different beliefs. I've told my family of my beliefs, but for the sake of avoiding arguments I don't get into it, because I know my mouth! At church, people can sense how very spiritual I am, and are asking me to take on different responsibilities within the church...saying I'm "a natural teacher". Here is the dilemma.. I want to help out, but it's very hard for me to teach or be involved with something I don't fully agree with. I want to keep to myself until I get back out west. If you know Baptists, you know how strong their beliefs are, and are VERY defensive of them. I sometimes shudder when they say they want to "win the battle", "save souls", "take back our children", etc. These are people I love and have loved all my life. I'm writing this today, because I was approached to become a teacher, after I've already joined a few choirs (singing is just a universal experience for me). What should I do?? How do you guys approach other people's beliefs through your own? How do I make it through this (knowing my personality) without condemning them for condemning others? I've had a lot of inner conflict with respect to all of this since I've been here. I try to focus on the common beliefs we have, instead of the differences, but it's not working. I'm used to saying exactly what's on my mind, and how I feel to keep me from exploding and hurting others. I'm in such an inhibiting environment, I don't know what to do. Thanks for your time and keep me in your prayers.

Jason
posted by:
Unsubscribed
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: Desperately need some objective advice....

    Sun, March 12, 2006 - 6:51 PM
    the only response that I feel comfortable and confident in is : you know what to do.

    You know exactly what it is, you know the situation, you know your true internal voice. Only you know that stuff. So, the only thing I would offer is : have at it, my man, what ever it is. . .
    • Re: Desperately need some objective advice....

      Sun, March 12, 2006 - 7:38 PM
      Wow Jason that is a difficult situation. I always try to approach people through commonalities. I realize that I disagree with a lot of things that people believe, but it is still their right to feel and think how they desire and we will never help them see anything differently if we are arguing. I agree that music is a great universal experience and you might just tell those that ask you to do other things, that you just don't feel comfortable doing those things. You don't necessarily have to explain, but certainly feel free to stand your ground. Maybe some things will open up conversations, but I know Baptists and they are not going to be converted to your way of thinking usually.

      Good Luck and hang in there. Maybe there is something in all of this for you to learn and take away that will be helpful to you.

      Dian
  • Re: Desperately need some objective advice....

    Mon, March 13, 2006 - 8:15 AM
    You're in a tough spot Jason. I don't envy you.

    In essence, I agree with Zigo, however.

    I used to have a friend who was a catholic monk. He was into Tarot, metaphysics, voodoo, zen and taoism. When I asked him how he reconciled those things, he replied that he didn't need to; that there was no conflcit. When asked about catholic belief, he replied with catholicism in mind. When asked about his own beliefs he would preface it with "Well the church would say...(insert appropriate answer here)... BUT my own perspective is... (insert appropriate addendum here)."

    I'm not suggesting that you do the same as much as I am implying that there may be a middle road. I'll not make any pretense--I don't know where that road might lie or where it might lead... but it likely exists.

    Best of luck,
    Papa
  • Re: Desperately need some objective advice....

    Thu, March 23, 2006 - 1:52 AM
    Jason!

    hey, wow, what a great series of tests for you to live through and learn from!

    what to do when faced with living and working in someone else's religious tradition, where you don't feel that comfortable? you could just decline the offers that are made to you, politely, explaining that you're way over-committed and just don't have the time.

    you could do the singing stuff and ignore the rest. you could try to teach a few universal things about Jesus and the experience of the divine as you understand it.... and stay out of the rest of the dogma. or just be of service, helping feed hungry people locally or doing some other church program that DOESN'T involve dogma as much as it involves action.

    it's also true that this is a chapter, only, in your life, not a permanent state of being -- maybe there are things you could imagine yourself doing, ways of contributing to the betterment of people, that maybe you could do for a month or two but not for years and years.

    there are a lot of choices there, some maybe not so great and others maybe marginally appealing -- or, as you've said, doing nothing at all for the time being.

    about judging other people -- I'm sure you know as well as any of us that it's a huge hurdle, in every human being, not to give into the tendency to judge others for any reason including their religious beliefs.

    on the other hand, there's a huge gap between religion and spirituality and it sounds like you're being forced by the divine to live in that gap, to feel it fully, to inhabit it and experience it.... and maybe for the future, as a way to explain the difference to others, to teach about the validity of personal experiences with the divine versus what the Bible-thumpers say about the divine.

    finally -- I'll leave you with a beautiful story from Paramahansa Yogananda, a beautiful Indian yogi of the last century who was in deep communion with Jesus Christ -- when he was confronted with a fundamentalist about the Adam & Eve story, he asked the fundie what that person thought about the serpent speaking to Eve, telling her to eat the apple. the fundamentalist replied that of course the serpent must've literally spoken to Eve, since 'in those days snakes could speak.' (ie, "it's in the Bible, so it must be true.") Yogananda -- in general a HUGELY loving being who never spoke harshly of anyone -- just BOWED to the person in a kind of roguish humility, and said, as he was bowing, "I bow to the colossal temple of ignorance before me!!!!!"

    what else could he do? as someone who had direct and constant knowledge of Jesus and his life, first-hand, when confronted with a pure dogmatist who had book-learning but no real knowledge..... what could he do? nothing but bow to the illusion in that person and move on.

    blessings to you, Jason, however it all works out at this chapter in your life --

    Alx
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Desperately need some objective advice....

    Sat, April 8, 2006 - 2:31 AM
    Funny to come across this thread....I have some students, a family who run their business from home and I got there once a week to teach them English. At one point I even took a Bible, as the wife wanted to read from it, although she found that too tiring in the end, being a beginner with no great aptitude for the rigour of grammar.

    They are part of a Christan group too, something called 'New Beginnings' and are frequently trying to get me to come to one of their gatherings. I was surprised thy took me on in a way, as my gothic appearance must surely be a bit of a giveaway aobut a lot of my interests....

    It is that much more difficult to be completely open about what I an about with people that I find likeable too.

    After 18 a deep inner crisis took me away from any kinds of fundamentalism for good, basically after recognising whatt a despot the god of the Old Testament actually was. I have always been drawn towards the snippets of writings by the ancient Gnostics, particulary for example, the Simonian myth, although modern forms of so-called esotericism give me the heebie-jeebies. I have designed a pack of Tarot cards and practise astrolgy, though I personally will not have theosophical or 'esoteric' stuff on the house. I find it hard to tell where the earlier Gnostics were coming from, doubless many were were indeed Platonically-minded mysogynists, but it did seem to me that the ancient Gnostics had more of a respect for the Feminine than the current New Age has.

    I have not come here to argue my points primaily about the more recently-mentioned things, however! I just want to repeat that Ihave the same dilmemma as Jason. I suppose if these two ever do question where Iam coming from, I shall have to say that whilst I repsect their spirituality, it is not really my path. If they decide that they will need to find a new teacher on that basis therefore, so be it. I suppose part of the isuue is also the sense that a community of souls where spirituality is more important than making conections materially, or just being just out to 'catch' someone, and neither did I like the mind games and ego trips of certain occult and New Age groups I came across in the 80's.

    I don't think there are any easy answers. In some pockets no doubt Christianity is becoming a whole lot more tolerant and less 'literalist' as Gandy and Freke put it than Islam. But I think there are other, worse kinds of fanaticism than fundamenalism at times.
  • Re: Desperately need some objective advice....

    Sat, April 8, 2006 - 10:20 PM
    Personally I would become a teacher and then teach what ALL the gospels say, not just the sanctioned 4. So if people freak out, they freak out. Most won't though, and the message is the important thing. There's more to Jesus than the King James version and people need to know.

    But that's just me. I used to argue with Moonies for fun in high school.

Recent topics in "Gnostic Way"