Tribe.net. Local Connections daniel mirante http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#7c9f0014-e67f-4f5e-a182-baa419fd7b43 2008-01-08T13:01:17Z 2008-01-08T13:01:17Z

there is a big difference between 'greed' compared to 'giving and recieving'... this has everything to do with the difference between 'positive' and 'negative' sexuality...

daniel mirante 2008-01-08T13:01:17Z Ozai http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#7c12e245-c7c8-4620-94f2-4f94bd7efca7 2008-01-08T08:23:06Z 2008-01-08T08:23:06Z

I reason that if we look within for the answer if we are fornicating or not at any given moment, we will get it, no matter how is defined in words, because our own feelings will tell us. Peace Be With All

Ozai 2008-01-08T08:23:06Z Ozai http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#3f86a476-aa6f-4eba-b85c-efd7b5b14ae7 2008-01-08T08:06:59Z 2008-01-08T08:06:59Z

> Samael Aun Waeor That school of though had a lot of followers in Spanish speaking countries. I seen many of his books (years ago), they never attracted me, but i do not imply with this that he/they are wrong or im right about anything. Each person has the path they need for the time being. S.A.W. reminds me of Lobsang Rampa, maybe because they were both "popular" decades ago. "Words and names are not the way They can't define the absolute It's better that you look within Hold your tongue and just be mute" Lao Tsu

Ozai 2008-01-08T08:06:59Z Jon http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#393d482c-f4c5-4e05-b936-adb7131bd305 2008-01-02T02:05:41Z 2008-01-02T02:05:41Z

I was once involved with a Gnostic group which followed Samael Aun Waeor's teachings. I eventually left in disgust over what I saw as certain cult-like tendencies. Their quasi-Puritanical ideas about sex were just the more obvious of a number of ridiculous ideas I encountered there. I think tantric sex is a wonderful tool, but to demonize all other forms of sex is laughable. Samael Aun Waeor may not have been without his insights, but he was the Chariot, not the Magician.

Jon 2008-01-02T02:05:41Z Steven http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#60c6b051-f405-4e9c-9bb7-04312cf7232a 2007-11-30T22:08:42Z 2007-11-30T22:08:42Z

Nice.

Steven 2007-11-30T22:08:42Z daniel mirante http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#4a330249-ce6a-4b32-9e3e-1de17282d9a8 2007-11-30T20:21:48Z 2007-11-30T20:21:48Z

The taoist view of sex is interesting. Sexual relating is seen as maintaining the balance of the Way. Yin needs balancing with yang and vice-versa. This is done through the interchange of both subtle and physical essences. The withholding of semen (in the case of withholding it way too much) would be seen as almost an act of vampirism, in that the male would be absorbing his partners yin essences without contributing his own yang essences. Many of these prohibitions against sexuality are actually created by men who are intimidated by, disturbed by or overwhelmed by their instinct toward sexual expression. Because it requires an object/subject outside of oneself (ie a sexual partner) and beyond ones own 'control' or inner independency, this instinct can be construed as a source of potential threat and vunerability. There is also the factor of envy of womens inherent desirability. But no human is an island, infact the human race is a 'hypersea' of biological and psychic connectivity. The gnostics, it seems to me, were not against sexuality per se but against the proscription to mindlessly 'go forth and multiply' - they believed in the miracle of love : conception through a 'kiss' - a metaphor for tenderness and true communion with each other.

daniel mirante 2007-11-30T20:21:48Z chrissie http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#2a5cc415-fad9-4a8e-a11c-83b60cbbc329 2007-11-12T23:24:52Z 2007-11-12T23:24:52Z

I am also a gnostic and I think the basis of the isea is correct. It is not the sexual energies which are sinful (for want of a better expression) But the misuse of these energies which you have to admit has been going on for some millenia. There is a lot of the base animal instint going on and man is a creature given a soul and Free Will. The Sexual energies are very powerful and it seems to me that in the case of mnks and nuns or the catholic expression of abstenance comes from the fact that many spiritual enlightened beings no longer are ruled by their lower instincts BUT that has been truned into a MUST or LAW that one must give it up. Suppression is always asking for troub le but then so is an anything goes attitude. The Human dilema seems to be that we ere in a different dimension and being guided to be whole persons on the human level bfore incarnating However there was an interference and this lead to a fall into the physical before we were really ready fo9r such experience. Even in the yaga tradition there is a from the Vedics an awarenes that people are born BEFORE their time! And then easily corrupted if you will. The spiritual path teaches that there is more to sex than the animalistic and I have to say I have always believed this to be so. And I read in Linda Goodmans "Love Signs" that when we rush in to a relationship on the physical level we leave our higher instincts behind. That first we fall in love with the eyes then the mind then the soul and the soul knows how to lead us into the physical. But the othr way around tends to lead is into seeking more and more sensation of the flesh, so to speak. This is perhaps why we say it 'sexual pleasure doesnt last' and when sex goes out the window so does the relationship usually. It is the love and tenderness careing affection and demonstration of this that leads to a far more stisfying and deepening bond. Which EVERYONE is looking for and no-one takes the time to give it life to grow. I agree tantric sex and the Taoist teach this and encourage us to go beyond the merely physical instant gratification. A devoted couple working together can reach hieghts of ecstacy that quick rumpy pumpy and fumbling and fine techniques and going through all the positions never can. Because it is the same old same old. and still leaves us knowing there is SOMETHING MORE! But while we go rushing in and not taking the time to connect mentally emtionally we shal never attain it.

chrissie 2007-11-12T23:24:52Z ric http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#ea76a2c8-572d-4b50-aee4-461f2abd9d45 2007-05-24T21:21:45Z 2007-05-24T21:21:45Z

I personally find everything I've heard about Aun Weor at least half dopey. The only people I've met who seem particularly devoted to him were a little on the crazy, almost fanatic kind of side.

ric 2007-05-24T21:21:45Z Steven http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/98fd3510-cb4e-4801-a607-695fdf49afaa#1c0caa8d-5c61-493b-95b9-de7223a0088a 2007-05-23T23:00:46Z 2007-05-23T23:00:46Z

I'm new to this tribe so first I'd like to say hello to everyone. I've recently been getting into the Gnostic work of Samael Aun Weor which can be found on GnosticRadio.com. I am particularly impressed with the work Aun Weor's done with Kabbalah in interpreting obscure text such as John's Revelation. One area I've struggled with however is Samael's idiosyncratic views on fornication and adultry. Ann Weor defines adultry as any kind of sex where orgasm is reached, be it between married or unmarried people. This is in contrast to Tantric sexual practices that focus on raising the Kundalini up the spine through sexual transmutation, which then allows the chakras/sephirot to be enlightened and Christ Consciousness to be reached. I don't have a problem embracing the idea of tantric sex contributing to enlightenment but Ann Weor seems to almost demonize any other form of sexual expression that does not conform to this model. In fact, he blames the Fall on having sex as animals (since orgasm is attained). I find this view to be potentialy helpful in making sense of the so-called forbidden fruit and why biblicaly sexual relations are described as "knowing" each other, but from a practical sense I find this view lacking common sense (pardon the pun) and an acceptance of the therapuetic value of healthy sexual expression. I decided to do some research on my own to see where this notion of fornication was conceaved (sorry more puns). Turns out that the Hebrew word for Fornication is Zanah which is spelled Zayin (Z), Nun (N), Hey (H) I found this odd since Zayin means woman of valor (see http://www.inner.org/HEBLETER/zayin.htm ), Nun means the Messiah ( http://www.inner.org/HEBLETER/nun.htm ) and Hey means Expression ( http://www.inner.org/HEBLETER/hei.htm ). In Greek Zanah is translated into Porneia. Zanah has been said to translate as Harlot or one who acts Whoreingly. I found this interesting editorial piece http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/Bereans/MD/tw.html that makes the case for why this word Zanah is used by Jesus as opposed to the Hebrew word for Adultry, Naaph. T he writer says "This is why: Porneia (fornication, harlotry, whoredom) strongly carries the connotation of a continuous way of life and character. Moicheia (adultery), on the other hand, connotes single acts, and does not necessarily carry the atmosphere of continuance or character. Distinguished, then, in this sense, Christ appears to be saying, by his choice of words, that single acts of unfaithfulness (moicheia), while a terrible abomination and possibly having terrible consequences for the rest of life that cannot be reversed, can be forgiven by the partner if there is true repentance and forsaking; but that fornication (porneia, harlotry, whoredom) as a fixed way of life makes continuation of a marriage impossible, however loving, Christlike and forgiving a partner may be." My view is that Zanah is indicating a person who is having sex in an unconscious compulsive manner such as a sex addict. I come to this conclusion based on the Hebrew letters and their meanings. Zayin, a woman of valor is somehow bent over into an unconcious "fish", another symbol of Nun), seeking salvation (Hei is the letter added to Abram and Sarai's names once their convenent with God's brings a child they had painfully desired more than anything). IMO sexual addiction like any other addiction is born out of the pain of a severed connection to one's spiritual source. I can see why this type of use of the sexual energies would be like throwing gasoline on the fire of that pain. The letter that follows Nun reinforces this notion as Nun progresses into Samech which means "endless cycle". Ayin (which mean Eye) is the letter that comes next in which this cycle can be broken. "One then experiences the Eyes of God lovingly watching over and guarding each one of his children Israel. This brings one to sense the existential separation of the holy from the profane, the righteous from the unrighteous, and to identify with the good. Finally one experiences the Infinite Eye of God directing every created being to its ultimate fulfillment of purpose in Creation, thereby bringing all Creation to realize its Divine Purpose. Here, one's awe itself is in the face of the revelation of God's Infinite Love for all ("all is right"). This is the secret of sweetening."

Steven 2007-05-23T23:00:46Z