Tribe.net. Local Connections na http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#4265d67d-fbe5-4a25-8e6f-a52ffe82b188 2007-02-09T03:30:21Z 2007-02-09T03:30:21Z

I've read The Gospel of Judas edited by Kasser, Meyer and Wurst. I love it! And I feel that alot of what it says is really what happened, although some of the ideas I can't quite get a feeling for or are a little more than I can understand, like I get people with the inner light are the Seth generation (uh, I think...) but what/who are Harmathoth, Galila, etc? And numbered aeons and luminaries? Anyway, they did a really good job of translating the text and their additional articles included in the book are really fascinating. I love where Judas says "You are from the immortal ralm of Barbelo, and I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who send you." And of course, the "mystery of the betrayal" to my mind, just makes common sense. I mean, he needed someone to hand him over to keep with Jewish messiah predictions and Judas stepped up to the plate. Well. I found it easier to read than many parts of the Nag Hammadi anyway.

na 2007-02-09T03:30:21Z Luke http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#d90b33d8-490d-4639-b87a-f60688483822 2006-12-15T00:13:04Z 2006-12-15T00:13:04Z

The Gospel of Judas is great. It is the first book to give a deeper mental insight into the Gnostics understanding of Consciousness as well as the spiritual dimetion and it relationship to consciousness. Many people in the world as well as in the Gnostic community have a very hard time understanding the deeper metaphysical and psycho spiritual experiences in the Gnostic text. What many traditional spiritual explorers in today’s world do not really understand is the relationship the natural world has to the human mind and the spiritual planes of existence. The Gnostics knew this, they new this very well. This ancient secret is slowly starting to reemerge in our modern western world. Very soon the great insights and answer into this amazing age-old secret will soon be reviled. I am here to tell you to be ready for when it comes. The times are comming soon, God bless

Luke 2006-12-15T00:13:04Z Carl http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#0f6b2b21-5e21-416f-affd-8641862eaa90 2006-06-02T03:54:55Z 2006-06-02T03:54:55Z

Well there are more bizaare things than human institutions. I don't think it had to be a human being bursting the pipe in the basement where the Apocryphon of John was being prepared for translation. And I'm not sure it would have been good for Gnosticism for it to have been released at that time.

Carl 2006-06-02T03:54:55Z Phillip http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#c6fbbb26-b04e-456f-bcc6-31d0e8e0edaf 2006-06-01T16:16:03Z 2006-06-01T16:16:03Z

Yes! I wonder! Didn't the Catholic church suppress the Gospel of Thomas for some time before the Nag Hammadhi Library was discovered with a version of it? I wonder if so, if something like this had happened. Certainly, any force that would want to suppress the work would have had more power behind it at that time.

Phillip 2006-06-01T16:16:03Z Carl http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#22c9c2b0-a811-43a2-b46e-684dd05510d9 2006-06-01T03:07:22Z 2006-06-01T03:07:22Z

The synchronicities with all the Gnostic materials, are quite amazing. The Apocryphon of John was around before 1900, it was scheduled for translation and publication several times. World War broke out, a pipe flooded a basement where it was being prepared, by the time it was ready to be worked on again, Nag Hammadi was discovered. Tons of squabbles with scholars, and events, delayed publication. Consider: what if the Gospel of Judas was found before there was such interest and knoweldge in Papyrology and the Coptic language, or the sort of science of preservation and dating, etc that we have now?

Carl 2006-06-01T03:07:22Z Mihalis http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#7bc9cf42-e7ff-4f66-83b6-3b5ae0e04d37 2006-05-15T22:41:54Z 2006-05-15T22:41:54Z

Thanks for the links Bruce...I am reading all about it now! I am a BIG fan of Judas now.

Mihalis 2006-05-15T22:41:54Z Bruce http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#c9500461-7c93-4336-a44b-579baab178db 2006-05-14T21:34:41Z 2006-05-14T21:34:41Z

I have started to post sections of the Gospel of Judas at the new site: http://www.newgospels.net which I hope will illuminate the discussion here!

Bruce 2006-05-14T21:34:41Z Bruce http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#38b87eaa-c129-4883-bd93-d5123b12e2a8 2006-05-13T06:27:32Z 2006-05-13T06:27:32Z

Dear Gnostic Way tribe members, if you think it would be valuable I can post sections of the Gospel of Judas on our website www.gnosticway.com ? That might focus discussion. This is the most fascinating early Christianity document I have ever read.

Bruce 2006-05-13T06:27:32Z Mihalis http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#618a89c2-f7e5-46b5-95a6-d1d5ffb0445d 2006-05-06T15:22:21Z 2006-05-06T15:22:21Z

"I agree that faith is not going to be shaken by whatever we find out historically..." I would like to believe that's true but not sure. I think many will feel betrayed by the church if the "truth" came out. What ever that is... But like you said Dian, it comes down to how we all feel spiritually! Mano-a-mano, you and your god!

Mihalis 2006-05-06T15:22:21Z Dian http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#00f79012-98a5-44cb-9cfc-e2b284a2b937 2006-05-06T02:34:18Z 2006-05-06T02:34:18Z

I really feel that folks need to find something that they are comfortable with spiritually. I have had some wonderfully gnostic and spiritual moments within the Catholic Church, it really just has to do with how you approach it. If your parents get something spiritually satisfying out of their church, who am I to say it is wrong? I agree that faith is not going to be shaken by whatever we find out historically, people will believe what they want. I actually have a deeper and more meaningful understanding of Jesus since I started reading all of the alternate books about him. It made him seem like more then just something the Church hid behind. It's all an interesting thing, but only time will tell how it is going to affect things. Dian

Dian 2006-05-06T02:34:18Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#c6ace299-335d-44a8-8954-698a0291db21 2006-05-06T01:35:37Z 2006-05-06T01:35:37Z

In my opinion, we cannot know anything for sure from the past. None of the Gospels can prove anything, and I agree that people have the right to decide for themselves, whatever criteria they use. As for the Catholic church, it cannot block all sources of information now, and what is more dangerous in our time is people’s unwillingness to know. But I can assume that for some people it isn’t necessary to question everything. Prayer can be stronger that knowledge.

Ivan 2006-05-06T01:35:37Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#ef335c93-6654-4122-98d1-50bcbaaa7e62 2006-05-06T01:31:24Z 2006-05-06T01:31:24Z

Unfortunately, there are serious opposite tendencies, although they are probably just a reaction. There are visible efforts, unconscious or not, but successful, to standardize every cultural field and reduce it to as few items as possible. Want Renaissance? look at the Leonardo’s pictures; want Ancient Greeks? read the Iliad; and so on. Needless to say that there is an abundance of beautiful ancient poems and Renaissance pictures. As one musical observer put it a couple of years ago, recently even good POP music has become underground. There are so many albums of Beethoven and Pink Floyd at Borders that they just have no room for decent modern artists on the shelves :)

Ivan 2006-05-06T01:31:24Z randy B http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#98e898bd-24e6-4e98-bb8c-9e44c1a48568 2006-05-06T01:12:55Z 2006-05-06T01:12:55Z

Just aman, who's divinity was voted on by the very same group trying so desperatly to hold on to what little power they have left!!!!!!! I don't know about anybody else but that answers alot of questions for me.

randy B 2006-05-06T01:12:55Z Mihalis http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#65a2b9e3-81d4-4582-954f-e7c748c78079 2006-05-05T22:25:58Z 2006-05-05T22:25:58Z

I understand what you guys mean by questioning "why now?"... What bothers me is WHY has the Catholic church been keeping it all away from the puplic. Why not just come out with the truth and let the people decide. So now that we are discoving all these things we can NOT help but question the church and the power it once had over us. My generation and the next will see changes in faith. But when I talk to my folks about this, they are OK with the church and the past. Maybe we should leave it alone. I don't know. What if we found out The Gospel of Jesus and it it says he was just a man. Perhaps a prophet but just a man. Would we change our minds about our faith? I wonder what the masses would do? Just a thought...

Mihalis 2006-05-05T22:25:58Z Dian http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#9a0f8e39-7374-48ba-95bf-d545857f1291 2006-05-05T03:08:07Z 2006-05-05T03:08:07Z

I do believe there is some synchronicity when you look at the big picture. I think that the world has been struggling with throwing off some of the old outdated paradims and the customary pendulum swinging that ensues when folks start to question things. So folks are digging for things that have been around, but unnoticed because they just weren't important. There are so many things that have been molding around in museums ignored that now there is an interest we are shedding light on these items. It's hard to say what came first, but I feel there is a shift that has been slowly happening the last few decades. Just doing my part to push those envelopes. Dian

Dian 2006-05-05T03:08:07Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#b72e4733-bbb2-441c-b37f-f85bea8460d9 2006-05-04T03:56:26Z 2006-05-04T03:56:26Z

Maybe you are right, Dian. Maybe this is a strong and natural modern trend, and the publishers just follow it. Or it is a kind of synchronicity :)

Ivan 2006-05-04T03:56:26Z Dian http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#8cad8769-b1b2-4fa2-bca3-b71ead2d6d85 2006-05-04T02:30:52Z 2006-05-04T02:30:52Z

I haven't read the Gospel of Judas yet, but I think that you ask some good questions Ivan. I think that the reason it is so big right now is because many are capitalizing on the DaVinci Code coattails. People are exploring their faith and what they believe in record numbers, which is why so many churches are upset about the movie. I personally feel that it is good to examine what you believe and why you believe it. Do you believe something because you have been told to, or because you feel in your heart that it is right for you. These are the questions that many are facing. These stories about new gospels, and books about the historical Jesus are interesting and I buy a lot of them, but often they aren't anything strikingly new. They do give me different perspectives though, so I find them interesting. It is all fascinating though and good to create discussion. Dian

Dian 2006-05-04T02:30:52Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#c7fed68f-47ab-4f6f-bdce-9d375f4f7de8 2006-05-03T22:29:54Z 2006-05-03T22:29:54Z

I don’t believe that spiritual knowledge can be destructive. This idea, in my opinion, has come from people, or creatures, who want to hide something from humanity. If we can’t handle something, it is just useless until its time comes. But it is always impossible to say, if there is anybody on earth who can handle the truth or not. So that kind of knowledge must be open for everybody. But here we have another thing. I find all this bustle around the gospel of Judas very strange. It is quite a mediocre Gnostic text, and the idea behind it is quite obvious and doesn’t look new. But someone has decided to popularize this particular idea, and I wonder why.

Ivan 2006-05-03T22:29:54Z Phillip http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#0d2392fe-802c-4451-bdd6-a55b4cd2221d 2006-05-03T14:56:36Z 2006-05-03T14:56:36Z

There DOES appear to be an "organized" strategy working within/behind this movement. But there also appears to be an "organized" counter-movement, which often inspire some pretty in-depth conspiracy theories, both of which have been the source of Gnostics discussions of spiritual forces moving humanity within and behind humanity. Note in Ephesians 6:12 where it says, "12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." So I wonder about this in the context of your post...???

Phillip 2006-05-03T14:56:36Z randy B http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#2c128bab-7222-4e69-8475-afcc8b90d98f 2006-05-03T10:02:46Z 2006-05-03T10:02:46Z

isn't it thought that there are or is a group of people that do let out info as we can handle it. (we, as in the human race) you know just enuff to stir everything up and get people to think for themselves to question the established ideas and rhetoric?

randy B 2006-05-03T10:02:46Z Mihalis http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#9eea658d-51d4-4f25-9980-d669812601e8 2006-05-02T23:46:51Z 2006-05-02T23:46:51Z

hahaha Yes, Ivan...I meant Shekels. And yes, I can be real funny but in this case I was not trying to be. Good catch. -Michael

Mihalis 2006-05-02T23:46:51Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#89db4ee5-6d87-469b-893b-254e0b51c462 2006-05-02T20:59:41Z 2006-05-02T20:59:41Z

I guess you meant shekels, not shackles... though it sounds funny :)

Ivan 2006-05-02T20:59:41Z Phillip http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#e814341d-5c4f-4efd-a192-65b6e6182789 2006-05-02T19:55:11Z 2006-05-02T19:55:11Z

Well, I think a lot of people misread the message of Jesus in the first place. I think ultimately, it is a message of transcendence, which the resurrection alludes to, and which the Gospel of Judas seems to emphasize with this teaching centering on Judas' "Star". What is this "Star"? I think it is a teaching on the transference of consciousness into a body of light, or a subtle body, which culminates, in its ultimate form, with the transformation of the body, as demonstrated by Jesus. Consider how locked up all of the disciples got about Jesus dying... but what did the transfiguration of Jesus on the mountain demonstrate to the disciples? That only his body would die, he had transcended death. I think this Gospel proposes that only Judas got this point at least before the crucifixion. Afterwards, perhaps more of them got that the entire message wasn't about THIS earth, or THIS body, but about methods of transcendence. I think all the disciples, and modern Christendom is dependent upon this idea of either a Kingdom of Heaven on earth, or a spiritual heaven that Christ will "rescue" the souls into, rather than a conscious labor to realize and actualize this consciousness beyond the body. Hopefully this Gospel can open our minds to this possibility.

Phillip 2006-05-02T19:55:11Z Mihalis http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#296472ec-f38b-4c4e-a05b-03084f4301fe 2006-05-02T18:57:49Z 2006-05-02T18:57:49Z

Hello all, new to the tribe... I have been reading much lately every since I heard about this new find, The Gospel of Judas. Just finding the Gospel Text was an amazing story but the truth about the text after six years of translating tells us much. It's all starting to make some sense to me. Some facts: Judas is an outsider. While all other apostles come from Galilee, Judas comes from Judea. John writes that Jesus makes Judas the treasurer. But John who hates him and is jealous that Jesus trusts Judas more then anyone, calls him a "Thief". Just like they were all jealous when it came to Mary, it makes sense that they hated Judas and made him the scape-goat. It looks like Jesus shared his secrets with him and gave him the "mission" to betray him. Judas knew what he was getting himself into but followed orders as given to him by Jesus. The the Bible the words in Greek, "Paradidomi" means "hand over" not "betrayal". It was not translated as such over time. Perhaps Judas went to the high priests to pay them off so they would leave Jesus alone. Why would he give up his master for a meir 30 shackles? About "The Kiss". He not NOT betray him with a kiss...instead, the kiss they exchange only shows more that they two men were close. Back then a "kiss" shows affection. How did the scholars get this wrong? The real villain is Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon(in what was then Roman Gaul) when at 180 AD wrote a massive treatise called Against Heresies. he knew very well about the Gospel of Judas and wanted to destroy it! He did his best to burn also all books that were not based on the four Gospels. As he said, Christianity needs Judas to blame. Also in Greek the words Judas was a label for Jews. Did the early bishops use it to put blame on all Jews as the ones who killed Judas? Yes! BTW: You will never read anywhere that Jesus himself called Judas a "trader" or an "informer". Also the worst thing you can do as a Jew back then is to give someone up to the Romans. I also don't believe he killed himself out of guilt. Perhaps he might have killed himself because his "master" died which makes more sense. Many people take their lives when that happens to honor them. I will write more about this subject as I read more into it.... -Michael

Mihalis 2006-05-02T18:57:49Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#8f900376-12f3-4d7a-b4ee-50097e1341b5 2006-04-12T21:27:59Z 2006-04-12T21:27:59Z

Some do, some don't; they are very different, and it is a very slippery saying :)

Ivan 2006-04-12T21:27:59Z zigo http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#5da76ba3-6615-4783-b8b3-952a29ffd4b3 2006-04-12T02:53:04Z 2006-04-12T02:53:04Z

do they?

zigo 2006-04-12T02:53:04Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#778c9216-ef49-456f-a868-ff142ea4a59a 2006-04-11T00:01:46Z 2006-04-11T00:01:46Z

Yes, it is an interesting point. Actually, Jesus hinted at it, saying "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." (Matthew 19:30) Some Christians hate this saying :)

Ivan 2006-04-11T00:01:46Z Phillip http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#8aa04b16-72c5-441e-a5c5-daebdd960721 2006-04-10T21:13:01Z 2006-04-10T21:13:01Z

I guess you're right about that. And each of the disciples inevitably had their intimate one-on-one experience of tranmission with the master. I guess another point that is so poweful to me is who it's from. Judas. For me, it signals a profound shift in thought about Good and Evil in our own consciousness as a culture and in spiritual thinking. To me it seems almost talismatic of a paradigm shift in how we think about and percieve God. Sure, many of us may have been thinking differently, however, is this is "tipping point" that takes human consciousness into an entire new state of understanding? If so, what new revelations will transpire for those of us who have stood at the fringes in the first place?

Phillip 2006-04-10T21:13:01Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#31b8d93e-1a2b-4fe4-b1a4-4115bee6662f 2006-04-10T17:38:47Z 2006-04-10T17:38:47Z

Whether this idea was accepted by the other apostles or not, it was clearly expressed even in the canonical Gospels. As for the Gospel of Judas, it just seems to me superfluous – at least half of it looks like filler and contains material that you can find in other Gnostic texts in a much better and intact narration. However, let it be :)

Ivan 2006-04-10T17:38:47Z Phillip http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#e7ad5b5c-b397-43e7-ad0d-95c9c7f7d08e 2006-04-10T05:56:28Z 2006-04-10T05:56:28Z

I think what is most significant for me in the Gospel of Judas is this idea of a disciple who got before everyone else this idea of a spiritual revolution, not a material one. Before Christ, this idea of a Heavenly Kindom was new. The Jews of the time had a very different view of the Kindom of Heaven. The Messiah would come and kick the crap out of the Romans, and then out of everyone else, and then establish his rule on earth. All the planets would align, and the earth would become the Kindom of Heaven. Halleluja! But it seems that the disciples didn't get this. Look at the debate among the disciples at who would sit at the "Right Hand" of Jesus. This is operating from a paradigm of an earthly Kingdom and wondering who is going to be the "King's" right-hand-man. But Jesus was speaking from outside of this paradigm, and this is the power of the message of Judas. Who else could comprehend Jesus' instruction to have him betrayed but one who comprehended this new paradigm from which Jesus was speaking?

Phillip 2006-04-10T05:56:28Z Ivan http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#bcf3b7f1-d826-43b8-acd8-cf93f0b2202a 2006-04-08T00:13:38Z 2006-04-08T00:13:38Z

It looks like someone has a huge coffer of ancient documents and takes out some of them whenever the suitable ideas become popular. As for the text itself… well, yes, it is a text)

Ivan 2006-04-08T00:13:38Z Dian http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#4c39bef9-2832-46c3-8727-c5b98a839d9d 2006-04-07T20:57:47Z 2006-04-07T20:57:47Z

Thanks so much for letting us know about this. I will check my local listings and hopefully be able to catch this. Dian

Dian 2006-04-07T20:57:47Z Daniel http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#4e869906-0379-4ab3-a5f0-f2f9f332deb3 2006-04-07T17:17:22Z 2006-04-07T17:17:22Z

National Geographic is showing a documentary about the Gospel of Judas this Sunday, April 9. Check the press release to find the viewing times in your area: http://sev.prnewswire.com/television/20060322/DCW02422032006-1.html

Daniel 2006-04-07T17:17:22Z Bruce http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/ccec0c1a-67bd-4ac5-97a5-ab68c0375921#66673886-2235-4ae0-8ab0-e728ea0bb50e 2006-04-07T07:23:03Z 2006-04-07T07:23:03Z

And the four gospels of the corporate church continue to unravel, we live in interesting times! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/04/06/gospel.judas.ap/index.html

Bruce 2006-04-07T07:23:03Z